Curse

Shendaar · Nov 16, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

I'm pretty sure nobody cares about your likings of how to play warrior,
GW =/= You. WE= just power, nothing else. 1 Guardian can make the war literally useless.

Same is true for most of the other warrior bars, so I fail to see how Guardian somehow makes the bar balanced. Guardian is much more efficient at slowing down Adrenaline based builds then the WE build btw.

Try again..

valence · Nov 16, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

EDex had tons of utility, self buffing, self maintenance, and way more damage. It and WE aren't even comparable imo.

Do you have a feeling for key numbers?

Like how much damage is a guy suppose to deal damage on a spike from range and on which rate.

How much damage is a frontliner suppose to deal damage and on which rate.

If you have that feeling, you understand why the builds are out of order. You understand why the concept of paragon/turret rangers/dervisches are bad. If you dont have a feeling of that, you just like big numbers.

Tbh I dont even think anet had put these numbers on paper, if they only kept lightning orb as the cornerstone of a spike skill (means every other big dmg skill is based on orb, stuff like the old ancestor rage could never have been created with this in mind) then we would have seen more pressure/split builds, as spiking in general is a lot harder to pull off.

Magikarp · Nov 16, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Same is true for most of the other warrior bars, so I fail to see how Guardian somehow makes the bar balanced. Guardian is much more efficient at slowing down Adrenaline based builds then the WE build btw.

Try again..

so because Guardian is good at slowing powerful utility-ridden adrenal moves like Dis Chop or Body Blow, let alone the far better elites like BB and Evis, it's not good against energy based attacks? So when I play my monk and stance out a WS derv, or a Sin combo, I'm stupid? I should be using something else?? What difference is there between the WE and any other energy based attack bar??? Power Attack/Prot Strike is a degenerative combo, but I wouldn't call it overpowered when if you're that worried about it, a normal prot does the same thing. This debate about how you all of a sudden have to "hard prot" the WE simply because it can spike a lot is like saying any short recast spike build is like that. WS, Moeb Sins, etc..

It's easy, its instant action, but it lacks the core reason that anyone was attracted to warriors in the first place, which is powerful elites and an active utility-based bar. You give everything up except Bulls to simply emulate a sub-par WS bar, and even then, the WS bar has way more utility and potential damage dealing capabilities.

Shendaar · Nov 17, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

I'd personally take a WE warrior over a WS derv but maybe that's just me and I did not say that Guardian was "useless" against energy attacks. Both the WS and WE bar are degenerate in their way and I don't even know why you are trying to compare them as it is irrelevant.

What we know is that WE bar can do a lot more damage than most of the other warrior bars. It is also easier to play and is not affected by melee shutdown as much thanks to its energy attacks. Sure it might not have the utility to win a skirmish fight, but warriors aren't really expected to do that anyway.

Stop trying to compare it to other degenerate BS to try to justify its existence. The only thing that matters is that the bar is not healthy for the game and should be dealt with. If you can agree with that, then the debate is over.

Magikarp · Nov 17, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

I'd personally take a WE warrior over a WS derv but maybe that's just me and I did not say that Guardian was "useless" against energy attacks. Both the WS and WE bar are degenerate in their way and I don't even know why you are trying to compare them as it is irrelevant.

What we know is that WE bar can do a lot more damage than most of the other warrior bars. It is also easier to play and is not affected by melee shutdown as much thanks to its energy attacks. Sure it might not have the utility to win a skirmish fight, but warriors aren't really expected to do that anyway.

Stop trying to compare it to other degenerate BS to try to justify its existence. The only thing that matters is that the bar is not healthy for the game and should be dealt with. If you can agree with that, then the debate is over.

I can't continue a debate about warriors with after reading that..

Shendaar · Nov 17, 2008, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

I can't continue a debate about warriors with after reading that..

And what exactly is wrong about what I said?

Snow Bunny · Nov 17, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

The WE bar does as much damage as a Shockaxe bar; it can just do it more often and with less skill.

Shendaar · Nov 17, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

If it can spike more often then I think it is safe to say that it does do more damage..

Div · Nov 17, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

so because Guardian is good at slowing powerful utility-ridden adrenal moves like Dis Chop or Body Blow, let alone the far better elites like BB and Evis, it's not good against energy based attacks?

It's not about getting the block on the dchop or evis. It's about slowing down their adrenaline building ability. A warrior that has to constantly switch targets will take much longer to build up the adrenaline to finally spike, whereas a WE warrior can spike whenever.

Quote:

What difference is there between the WE and any other energy based attack bar??? Power Attack/Prot Strike is a degenerative combo, but I wouldn't call it overpowered when if you're that worried about it, a normal prot does the same thing.

Good luck spamming power attack without WE. I think anyone who has half a brain and knows what's going on knows that dervishes are broken and mindless to play compared to warriors. Why? Because warriors are balanced around the adrenaline building process, whereas dervs can pewpew whenever they want.

Quote:

This debate about how you all of a sudden have to "hard prot" the WE simply because it can spike a lot is like saying any short recast spike build is like that. WS, Moeb Sins, etc..

No one's saying that WS isn't imbalanced.

Magikarp · Nov 17, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

No one's saying that WS isn't imbalanced.

Ok. I didn't realize you guys were against WS too. Seemed like any other debate everyone was defending it. In that case, yeah, I'll say WE is broken haha. I still have yet to face a scary WE in small arena, but I don't GvG or HA at all anymore, so maybe it's different there.

AKB48 · Nov 17, 2008, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Same is true for most of the other warrior bars, so I fail to see how Guardian somehow makes the bar balanced. Guardian is much more efficient at slowing down Adrenaline based builds then the WE build btw.

Try again..

Are you seriously a representive of all Mentally Challenged People? Because from what you wrote above, I think you really were trying to hint me on that.

Back to the topic, was I Ever talking about making things balanced? READ my entire post for God's sake. All I was saying was that WE isn't some invincible skill that allows warriors to K.O. everything and anything in their paths. WE, although have alot of power when use in conjunction with skills like Power Attack, lacks versatility: it can't interrupt, can't inflict conditions nor can it cause knockdowns or by used with skills other than these in the Warrior Class. So it isn't overpowered, because WE sacrifices versatility for power, unless Izzy somehow give it both of these traits, I wouldn't call it "overpowered". The state its in right now is perfect imo.

Snow Bunny · Nov 17, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Who cares if it can't interrupt?

You enchant strip a target, you pew pew the target, target dies.

Do you not understand that a 3,2,1 spike warrior doesn't need disruption?

xDusT II · Nov 17, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Pretty sure the WE bar could support Dstrike and even Shock if need be, but why bother when you can just spam damage skills every 3 seconds and score kills.

Shendaar · Nov 17, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

Are you seriously a representive of all Mentally Challenged People? Because from what you wrote above, I think you really were trying to hint me on that.

Back to the topic, was I Ever talking about making things balanced? READ my entire post for God's sake. All I was saying was that WE isn't some invincible skill that allows warriors to K.O. everything and anything in their paths. WE, although have alot of power when use in conjunction with skills like Power Attack, lacks versatility: it can't interrupt, can't inflict conditions nor can it cause knockdowns or by used with skills other than these in the Warrior Class. So it isn't overpowered, because WE sacrifices versatility for power, unless Izzy somehow give it both of these traits, I wouldn't call it "overpowered". The state its in right now is perfect imo.

For the 100th time, the lack in of utility does not make up for the huge dps increase and for how easy it is to play. Can you back up your claim or are you just afraid that your new favorite build will get nerfed?

Call me mentally challenged if you want .. in the end you're still wrong.

Apok Omen · Nov 17, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

The difference between Warriors and every other physical class is that Warriors have to built adrenaline and could spike in a non-rechargable instance. When you see, as a monk, a Derv or a Sin walking up to a target, you know they are going to use their skills. All you have to do is SB or Guardian their target and you win. With a Warrior, you have to constantly prot a target they are on just to prevent them from spiking every 3-5 seconds. But when they can spike every 3-5 seconds, its even more imbalanced than Dervs and Sins.

WE should never have been touched. It was somewhat fine as a stance, then someone said it should be a skill. Well, let's look at another elite skill that should be a stance: Rampage as One. It's a skill that never should have been. Even though it would still supply an IAS and IMS, making it a stance would make it counterable with more shutdown.

Now, we have PA+PS spammers who can spike any target with little-to-no individual shutdown (If you call Diverting a WE war 'shutdown', gtfo) Yes, we know it can still be blinded/hexed/etc., but so can every physical class. Its broken and needs to be approached instead of defended. At least add an end-clause to it like "ends when energy is full" or something.

Or Smiters Boon it.

Magikarp · Nov 17, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Or Smiters Boon it.

thats way too drastic. simply reduce its recharge so it only kept up 50% of the time. boom. forces you to take more adren skills, or flat out use a better elite.

Dmitri3 · Nov 17, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Or Smiters Boon it.

No, that would do far worse effect that you think.

Let's face it: the only reason why you think WE is overpowered is that Power Attack for example is linked to Strength, which means you are a warrior and have 2 pipes of regen. So a ranger/dervish/sin can't abuse/spam it. WE, for a cost of an elite, make warrior have a lot more energy (it's not unlimited like some people say and can be countered).

Best way to deal with that, if there is even any problem with it, is to lower damage of power attack (6-8) OR increase recharge by a few seconds.

Nerfing WE will do nothing more that kill any warrior using daggers/scythe... thus making this game even less diverse.

DarkNecrid · Nov 17, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

No I'm pretty sure we think Warrior's Endurance is overpowered because it breaks the Warrior. Warrior's are balanced around adrenaline, not energy, and even other classes too because the Warrior has more armor than they do and because he's spamming attack skills the DPS from AP will come really really close to the damage from Crit Strikes while having more armor, so you have two options:
-Nerf Warrior's Endurance (hey guy there's other skills besides Power Attack sorry!)
-Nerf all Energy attacks in the game.

now which do you think affects diversity more

AKB48 · Nov 17, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

For the 100th time, the lack in of utility does not make up for the huge dps increase and for how easy it is to play. Can you back up your claim or are you just afraid that your new favorite build will get nerfed?

Call me mentally challenged if you want .. in the end you're still wrong.

Huge dps? Are you frigging human? He can't do a shit with "his huge dps" if he can't hit you. Second of all, so what if it's easy to play? The newbs will swam over it sure, but newbs are still newbs, lambs to the slaugther. Seasoned pvp players doesn't need an easy build, they have their favorite builds and they can easily adopt to new changes.

For the 100th time, try to think for once?

And my new favorite build you are saying? Haha you acutally have a talent for making people laugh, Grats.

But really, there are a billion ways to play warrior, WE is just one of them, one that lacks everything except power.(yay?)

And yes, if you're not mentally challenged then you're born a retard, in the end I will emerge right and you? Needless to say anything about that........

Edwards · Nov 17, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

The people defending WE basically only have two points, both of which are wrong/stupid:

WE does not improve build diversity, because it's all people play now. If you're going to tell me now that people play plenty of other things in RA, TA, and AB, then GTFO.

WE does lack utility, but it doesn't need it because it kills things by doing more damage in more bursts than is supposed to happen. Blah, blah, blah, no interrupts, etc. That's why you have the other 6 players on your team.

GUILD WARS IS NOT BALANCED FOR RANDOM ARENAS.